We’ve been holding onto this one for a while. In fact, we recorded it last year, then (like all good things) it got buried under real life. But after seeing AnnMarie's keynote at the 2,000-person event we spoke at recently, we knew it was time to share.
Dr. AnnMarie Thomas has one of the most fascinating brains we’ve ever encountered. She’s worked with LEGO, collaborated with OK Go, helped students build circuses to teach physics, and now explores the ocean with submarines. Casual.
In this episode, we sit down with AnnMarie to talk about why play isn’t just for kids and how it might be the secret ingredient for better teams, better tech, and better lives. We get into:
Why your workplace needs more surprise (and less beanbag-chair energy)
How Minecraft is secretly teaching Gen Alpha teamwork better than most corporate retreats
The idea that technology is not just screens! It’s sewing needles, circus trapezes, and xylophones made of earthquakes
And why “virtual learners” and “learning loss” are dangerously misleading narratives
There’s something about the way AnnMarie sees the world that’s deeply inspiring. It reminded us how much joy, whimsy, and curiosity still matter.
This conversation left us energized. We hope it does the same for you.
– Jenny and Greg Swan
P.S. If you know where to find real conversation on the internet these days, let AnnMarie know. She’s looking.
🎧 Listen now:
📝 Key Quotes from Dr. AnnMarie Thomas x The Cave Project:
On play as a mindset:
“To me, one of the key aspects of play is that it’s process, not outcome.”
On why corporate 'play' often misses the mark:
“A lot of companies look at play and it becomes fairly prescriptive. Forced fun. Beanbag chairs and costume day do not make your company playful.”
On the limits of gamified workplaces:
“Ping pong tables and pizza parties aren’t play. They may be joyful—unless you’re lactose intolerant or really don’t like competition—but that’s not playfulness.”
On the importance of surprise:
“You think differently when you’re surprised. And if we go back to tech, we’re surprised so much less because we can get information right away.”
On redefining technology:
“A pencil is technology. A sewing needle is technology. If you bring some cool hand tools to a classroom, I bet many kids will be more interested in that than the latest app on their phone.”
On collaborative gaming:
“Minecraft let them literally work together in the same world. To me, that’s magical.”
On kids and learning loss post-COVID:
“We have to be careful with our words. Particularly when we’re talking about emerging tech and kids and norms that are artificial.”
On creativity in the workplace:
“You need to give yourselves time to explore the somewhat silly tangents and possibilities. And that’s what play is.”
On the illusion of safety in doing things the usual way:
“It’s this fiction that it’s riskier to do things differently than to do them the same. And I don’t think it’s always riskier to do things differently.”
🎙️ Check out The Cave Project Archives
If you’re just joining us, welcome! We’re on Season 2 of The Cave Project — a movement exploring the nuance of our modern-day reality and the tension of our technological future with Jenny and Greg Swan. Learn more about us here. Check out the archives here.
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